. >> particularly carl johnson from the cdc. >> yes. >> and you found african colleagues to collaborate with and fellow belgiums, came a little bit later after you had been there awhile. tell me what you learned in 1976 that guided you forward about international cooperation. >> yeah. when i discovered that where i came from, the means we had both financially and technically, were far inferior to what was, you know, available here in the u.s., and whereas i resented that, indeed, you know, we had isolated the virus for the first timing and the folks from cdc came and said we're taking over. i resented that. that's absolutely true. then i saw i could learn so much, and joel brennan who really initiated me into the field of epidemiology, and i'm really still grateful for him, and it was not only the u.s., but it was like in some of the jobs, there's a frenchman and a south african and a brit and a belgium and an american, and then some congoes in a plan. the power of coming up with different perspectives i found so fantastic. i was very impressed by the technical superiority of our americ